University of Southern California Dissertations and Theses

Sages & seekers

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Sages & seekers

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Content 1

Sages & Seekers

Andrew Robert Dubbins

A Thesis Presented to the

FACULTY OF THE USC ANNENBERG SCHOOL FOR COMMUNICATION AND JOURNALISM

UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

In Partial Fulfillment of the

Requirements for the Degree

MASTER OF ARTS

(SPECIALIZED JOURNALISM)

MAY 2023

2

Acknowledgements

This documentary would not exist without the guidance, technical and editorial support, and
unwavering encouragement of Dan Birman, Megan Chao, and Susy Garciasalas Barkley. Thank
you also to my thesis committee members Sandy Tolan and Alan Mittelstaedt for cheering on
this concept from the outset and providing invaluable feedback. Thank you to Willa Seidenberg,
who provided advice during the development stage. Thank you to the Sages & Seekers team,
including Elly Katz and Reilly Anspaugh, for allowing me to tag along every Wednesday; and to
the staff of Larchmont Charter School, including Alison Greene, LCSW, and Principal Mike
Kang. Above all, thank you to the program participants, including Madeline Garcia-Nuñez and
Geraldine Hurley, for your good humor, openness, honesty, and kindness to me.

ii

3

Table of Contents

I. Acknowledgements……………………………………………………………………….....ii

II. Abstract………………………………………………………………………………………iv

III. Reflection………………………………………………………………………………….….1

IV. Bibliography………………………………………………………………………….……….6

V. Documentary Script……………………………………………………………………….…7

iii
1

Abstract

Sages & Seekers is a documentary short that follows a high school teenager, Madeline Garcia-
Nuñez, and her elder mentor, Geraldine Hurley, over the course of a six week after-school
program that pairs high school teenagers with elder adults to combat ageism.

Set at Larchmont Charter School in L.A.’s Rampart Village, the documentary was filmed verité
style, capturing the frank conversations between teens and elders in real time. It follows
Madeline and Geraldine, and other pairs, from their initial meeting to the finale of the program,
presenting their discussions about life, culture, family, technology, and other topics.
iv

1

Reflection

During the first week of the Fall 2022 Sages and Seekers session at Larchmont Charter High
School, founder Elly Katz delivered an introduction, outlining the mission of the program:
combatting ageism. “Believe me,” she said, “that elder adults have as many stereotypes about
what young people are like, as you students do about what old people are like.”

The group’s first activity was branded as a type of speed dating, where each teenager talked for
three minutes with each elder adult. Differences between the demographics were immediately
apparent: A teenager who didn’t know who Peter Jennings was; an elder adult who couldn’t
recognize the woman on a teenager’s t-shirt. (“She’s new on “Drag Queens,” explained the
teenager.) But the similarities were more substantive: teens and elders who shared a love of
reading and music, a distaste for math, or closeness with family.

The documentary focuses on one of the “Seekers,” 15-year-old Madeline Garcia-Nuñez, who
says she feels left out at school, lonely, and unseen. She is introduced at a park near her home,
drawing on her sketchpad. We watch a relationship blossom between Madeline and her elder
“Sage,” Geraldine Hurley. The active 77-year-old African American widow loves to stay busy –
knitting, volunteering, or filling out over 3,000 postcards to encourage people to vote. “Giving
things is where happiness comes from,” she says. “Giving of yourself, your time.”

Madeline and Geraldine develop a close bond. They even meet outside the program. When
Madeline tells Geraldine that she is working as a backstage crew member in her school’s fall
play, “Clue,” Geraldine attends the matinee performance that weekend to support her.

2

We briefly meet other pairs, such as Mary and Stevie, who share a love for classic rock. There’s
also 14-year-old Diego and his Sage, Jeffery, who share an honest conversation about their
relationships with their parents.

The climax comes in week six, when each teenager reads a short essay about their elder
partner. Geraldine is moved to tears by Madeline’s heartfelt tribute. Change and growth are
apparent both in the teenagers and elders. The gap between young and old that once appeared
so wide has become barely noticeable at all.

* * *

There wasn’t always a generation gap. In the early 1800s in America, very young children
sometimes went to school
1
or worked in the fields
2
with adults. Back then, many people didn’t
celebrate birthdays and sometimes didn’t remember their age.
3
But in the late 1800s,
psychologists identified distinct stages of life, age norms, and defined how people at certain
ages act.
4
Age-related institutions began, such as orphanages and children’s hospitals.
5

Marketers widened the divide by creating demographics such as teenyboppers and tweens.
6

By the mid-twentieth century, interactions between young and old people became less common
even within families, according to journalist David Brooks.
7
Brooks examined the trend in an

1
2023. “Age Consciousness, Age Segregation, and Age Denigration.” Inside Higher Ed.
2
“Overcoming Age Segregation.” Stanford Social Innovation Review.
3
2023. “Age Consciousness, Age Segregation, and Age Denigration.” Inside Higher Ed.
4
---
5
---
6
---
7
2020. “The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake.” The Atlantic.

3

article for The Atlantic titled “The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake,” writing, “We’ve moved from
big, interconnected, and extended families, which helped protect the most vulnerable people in
society from the shocks of life, to smaller, detached nuclear families…which give the most
privileged people in society room to maximize their talents and expand their options.”
8

Today, we live in a highly age-segregated society.
9
In a 2017 survey by the Eisner Foundation
and Generations United, more than half of respondents said they rarely spend time with people
much older or younger than them, aside from family members.
10

Elders are couped up in senior homes, and teenagers in high schools. And yet, the two
demographics face similar struggles: Searching for meaning and relevance; feelings of “not
fitting in”; lacking independence, and currency in society.
11

What are the consequences of America’s generation gap? Ageism for one.
12
The generation
gap can breed disparaging attitudes and outright discrimination toward groups based on their
age, such as adolescents and the elderly.
13
Other consequences include stereotypical thinking,
distrust and misunderstanding between the groups, and competition over public policy items like
funding services for seniors (such as Social Security and Medicare) versus education and child
care.
14

8
2020. “The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake.” The Atlantic.
9
2018. “The U.S. Isn’t Just Getting Older. It’s Getting More Segregated by Age.” Harvard Business
Review.
10
2017. “I Need You, You Need Me.” Generations United and The Eisner Foundation.
11
Katz, Elly, interview by Andrew Dubbins. 2023. Impact (April 25)
12
2018. “The U.S. Isn’t Just Getting Older. It’s Getting More Segregated by Age.” Harvard Business
Review.
13
2021. “Global Report on Ageism.” World Health Organization.
14
2018. “Old Versus Young: The Cultural Generation Gap.” Pew.

4

Non-profit Sages & Seekers has reached over 6,000 teens and seniors since its launch in
2010.
15
Some of the pairs remain close for many years after the program, said founder Elly
Katz. She described Bea, an 84-year-old artist, who used to draw 21-year-old Jesse during their
conversations. Over the course of the two-month program, they formed a close bond. When
Bea passed away, Jesse gave a speech at her funeral. “He really captured who this woman was
and what she had exposed him to in his life going forward,” Katz recalled.
16

* * *
I chose to produce a documentary as part of my thesis requirement because I am an avid
watcher of documentary films and believe some of the best filmmaking today is happening in the
documentary space (take Free Solo or American Factory). My goal, going into Sages &
Seekers, was to watch a relationship between a teenager and an elder adult unfold over the
course of the program, and I feel I accomplished this goal. Where I could have improved was in
the technical aspects of filming: namely managing audio in the crowded classroom. This said, I
do think the natural sound lends a down-to-earth, realistic quality to the film. Another challenge
included collecting appearance releases from the numerous participants in the program, and
keeping individuals who chose not to appear “out of the shot.” Moving around the crowded
classroom with my camera, there were also a number of instances where participants looked at
or spoke to the camera, which could not be used in the film.

The potential audience for the documentary includes teenagers, elder adults, educators, social
workers, and general audiences who enjoy character-driven human interest stories in the vein of
CBS Sunday Morning’s programming. The documentary might also appeal to people with an
interest in mental health challenges and solutions.

15
Katz, Elly, interview by Andrew Dubbins. 2023. Impact (April 25)
16
---

5

I began filming at L.A.’s Larchmont Charter School at Lafayette Park on October 5, 2022, and
captured each Wednesday meeting for the next six weeks, culminating on November 9. I also
filmed formal sit-down interviews with the main characters, as well as sequences that captured
them spending time in their homes and performing their hobbies. The thrill for me was listening
to special moments between the high school students and their elder mentors: a teenager eager
to vote in the wake of the abortion ban (but still too young to register); an elder discussing his
struggles to preserve friendships; a pair bonding over their love for classic rock. Print journalists
can describe moments like these, or even quote them; but the advantage of documentary is to
capture the reactions, the laughter, and the chemistry between people.

For me, the greatest challenge of documentary, as a form, was fear of missing out (FOMO). I’d
be filming one conversation, but wondering if I should be focusing my lens on a different pair.
Over time, I came to accept that I could not be everywhere at the same time. I tried harder to be
present with each pair I was filming, and—as Geraldine advised—I focused on listening.

6

Bibliography

Brooks, David, “The Nuclear Family was a Mistake.” The Atlantic, March 2020.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-nuclear-family-was-a-
mistake/605536/

Freedman, Marc and Trent Stamp, “Overcoming Age Segregation.” Stanford Social Innovation
Review, March 15, 2021. https://ssir.org/articles/entry/overcoming_age_segregation

Freedman, Marc and Trent Stamp, “The U.S. Isn’t Just Getting Older. It’s Getting More
Segregated by Age.” Harvard Business Review, June 6, 2018. https://hbr.org/2018/06/the-u-s-
isnt-just-getting-older-its-getting-more-segregated-by-age

Frey, William H., “Old Versus Young: The Cultural Generation Gap.” Pew, January 27, 2018.
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/trend/archive/winter-2018/old-versus-young-the-cultural-
generation-gap

“Global Report on Ageism.” World Health Organization. 2021. https://www.who.int/teams/social-
determinants-of-health/demographic-change-and-healthy-ageing/combatting-ageism/global-
report-on-ageism

“I Need You, You Need Me.” Generations United and The Eisner Foundation, May 2017.
https://www.gu.org/app/uploads/2018/05/SignatureReport-Eisner-INeedYou-Background-
Paper.pdf

Katz, Elly, interview by Andrew Dubbins. 2023. Impact (April 25).

Mintz, Steven, “Age Consciousness, Age Segregation and Age Denigration.” Inside Higher Ed,
March 21, 2023. https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/higher-ed-gamma/age-consciousness-
age-segregation-and-age-denigration

7

Script

VO Geraldine Hurley
Retired Teacher
Clip0012 13:34:38

Clip0034 23:49
Clip0034 50:39
Clip0034 55:28
Clip0034 58:36
Pairs of teens and elders sit talking
to each-other in classroom

We all want the same thing. We want our children to
be loved; we want them to be confident; so, we listen
to them.
Text Cards:

In American society today, teens and
elders rarely interact outside their
own families.

Source: Stanford Social Innovation Review

An LA nonprofit had the idea to pair
them up for two months of weekly
conversations.

The after-school program is called…

Title Card:

Sages & Seekers

Source: Elly Katz, interview by Andrew
Dubbins

VO Madeline Garcia-Nunez
Student
Clip0014 17:16:33

Clip0004 2:57
Downtown LA with bus

Clip0027 27:02
So I get to school early cause I take the bus. And I
was walking down the hallway and I was looking at
the bulletin board because that’s where we have
announcements and I saw something about
community service and so at first I was like, oh
community service, okay!

8

Madeline walking in hallway, looking
at bulletin board

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 13:10:20

Clip0018 21:31
St. James Church

Clip0020 23:34
St. James Church spire

Clip0008 9:18
Church lantern

Clip0019 22:19
Geraldine on welcome poster

I’m very active in Saint James Episcopal Church, and
a week before Sages and Seekers began, a priest
called me in and said, “Gerry, I just got this
information on an email and I think this is perfect for
you.”
SOT Geraldine
On Camera
And I read it, and I said, “It is.”

NAT SOUND Outside School
Clip0042 07:06
School exterior

Clip0044 17:06
Larchmont Charter sign

VO Elly Katz
Executive Director and Founder of
Sages & Seekers
Clip0013 20:09

Clip0002 45:32
Classroom door

Clip0030 1:00:54
Snacks and S&S Binder

The main goal here is that we break down the
stereotypes that keep the generations apart.
SOT Elly Katz
Clip0013 20:06
Elly introduces Sages & Seekers with
participants assembled in a circle

Believe me the older adults have as many
stereotypes about what young people are like, as you
do about what old people are like.

9

NAT SOUND Have You Ever
Clip0013 23:15
Teens and seniors seated in a circle
in a classroom

Reilly: Just to get right into it, we’re going to play a
little have you ever. Who has ever—and it’s okay to
be honest—who has ever been stood up by a date?

Tia: Wait what did you say?

Reilly: Ever been stood up by a date.

Reilly: Mark, what happened?

Mark: She didn’t show up: I was supposed to meet
her at a concert, she didn’t show up; but it was
actually a blessing in disguise because I met another
young lady who ended up being my first wife

Reilly: Stop it, stop it, that’s amazing!

VO Elly Katz
Clip0013 16:16

Speed dating cheat-sheet
Clip0017 32:36

Teens prep for dating
Clip0017 31:25

Elders prep for dating
Clip0021 20:55

Madeline sips coffee, pre-dating
Clip0018 41:26

What we’re going to do is speed dating; well a version
of; it don’t get scared. / We want every student to
have the opportunity to have 3 minutes with every
sage; and the students will choose who they want to
talk one on one with for the rest of the program.

10

SOT Elly Katz & Reilly Anspaugh
(program facilitator)
Clip0018 42:54
Elly & Reilly standing, with teens and
elders seated at tables

Elly: Reilly, let it go!

Reilly: And we’re off!

NAT SOUND Speed Dating
Various voices around the
classroom, where teens and seniors
sit talking to each other

Clip0019 7:06
Clip0019 1:04:59
Clip0021 1:12:05
Clip 0009 12:11:18
Teens and elders sit talking to each
other

Cira: Nice to meet you.
Mark: Nice to meet you too.

Geraldine: I’m just in the act of finishing 3,200
postcards to get people to vote.

Leonora: There you go; you can take a look at my
website.
Cira: I will!

Anne: I was born in England and I was a child during
WWII, and I remember the bombs coming down
VO Madeline
Clip0014 17:18:46

Clip0018 44:39
Clip0021 15:46
Clip0019 56:52
Clip0018 55:27
Clip0018 46:00
Teens and elders talking at tables

I don’t really know a lot of elder adults in my
community and it just gave me a lot of comfort
knowing okay, maybe there’s life after high school. I
have a future! Like these people. They made it, so I
can too!

NAT SOUND Speed Dating Ctd.
Various voices around the classroom

Clip0018 49:30
Clip0021 1:10:39
Teens and seniors sit talking to each
other

Madeline: I’m really into visual arts. That’s what I’m
trying to pursue outside of high school.

Diego: Have you watched The Boys?
Mary: Yes.
Diego: Oh my gosh, it’s so good. It’s very good.

SOT Mark Robinson (program
participant) and Jay Duarte (student)
Clip0019 1:15:27
Mark and Jay sit across from one
another at a table

Mark: I love your shirt. Who is that?
Jay: It’s a drag queen actually.
Mark: What’s her name?
Jay: Denali.
Mark: I’ve never heard of her.
Jay: She was recently on Drag Race, so she’s kind of
new.

11

Mark: Well it’s a beautiful shirt.
Jay: Thank you. Um do you have anything you want
to ask me about?
Mark: Well I just asked about your shirt.
Jay: Yeah.

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 13:13:26

Clip0018 53:58
Clip0019 59:57
Clip0019 57:31
Pairs of teens and elders talking to
each other.

I loved bringing up children, I loved what they had to
say to you. I loved hearing what they had to say. And
if you make them comfortable enough, they will tell
you everything.
SOT Madeline & Geraldine
Clip0021 1:14:19
Madeline and Geraldine talking
across a table

Madeline: I was born in 2007 and I was like first kid,
so I was like the experimental baby. They were
watching; they were reading all the books…they’re
like oh we should do this. Like oh, play Mozart while
the baby’s sleeping.

Geraldine: Well, that’s wonderful. Not unless it gives
you too much pressure but it doesn’t appear so.

VO Madeline
Clip0014 17:20:34

Clip0021 1:14:30
Madeline and Geraldine talking
across a table

It seemed like she had so much to share. / So I was
like well, I’d be interested in getting to know Geraldine
better.

VO Madeline
Clip 0016 18:09:00

Clip0018 18:11:01
Madeline walking into park

Clip0024 18:39:28
Distant Hollywood Sign

Clip0022 18:33:46
Establishing Lemon Grove Park
When I was younger, I would come to the park and I
would draw here / It really relaxes me because my
dad when I was little, he would draw a lot with me....I
would always be really calm whenever I was drawing
with him or just watching him draw.

12

VO Madeline

Clip0018_18:11:43
Madeline sits, takes out supplies

Clip0019 18:22:12
Madeline flips through notebook

My dad, he lost his job because he was a cook and
his business it shut down in the pandemic. So my
mom, she had to work full time and she works / at a
retail place. And so she was working full time. So I
had to take care of my youngest sister, who was three
at the time. So I’d do stuff like help her get dressed,
you know, help / give her a bath, feed her and like
that.
VO Madeline

Clip0019 18:23:16
Madeline getting pen from supplies

Clip0018 18:16:24
CU Madeline drawing

I didn’t really have anything to do outside of school.
Cause outside of school it was just homework and
that was it. And I felt like really lonely because it was
just me and my family and like, I do love my family,
but I felt like I needed someone outside of my family /
Cause we were all just cooped up inside like a little
tiny apartment.

VO Madeline

Clip0019 18:24
Madeline drawing eyes

I don’t think also that anyone really notices me at
school / I’m just like that one kid who’s sitting in the
corner all alone because I don’t know anyone else / I
don’t know I just find it really hard to make friends
because I don’t really like talking because I’m
nervous.

VO Madeline

Clip0019 18:26:03
CU Madeline drawing

Clip0020 18:29:22
Wide of Madeline drawing

At school, with everything… as long as I had paper
and a pencil I’d be able to draw / So whenever I didn’t
understand anything, I would draw or whenever I was
feeling really stressed out, I would draw. And it was
just something that kept me grounded and sort of kept
me in place.
VO Reilly Intros Week Two
Clip0034 1:00:14

Clip0044 12:29
Est of school with butterfly mural

And Seekers get on up and go sit with your Sage!
VO Madeline
Clip0016 18:00:01

She would tell me as to how I should keep on doing
the things that I like and how I should listen to myself
and value myself. / And it sort of gave me a boost of

13

Clip0034 52:44
Pan room of teens and elders talking

self confidence like, oh if someone else can see me
like that, why can’t I see myself like that or like maybe
I should start seeing myself like that.

SOT Madeline & Geraldine
Clip0035 1:42:01
Madeline shows Geraldine a drawing
on her phone

Madeline: Oh yeah, this is what I drew. It was like…
Geraldine: Oh my god.
Madeline: We had to make a grayscale so that’s sort
of what I drew.
Geraldine: Oh my god. That’s amazing.

SOT Mary Collins, program
participant, and Stevie Joy, student
Clip0034 1:01:24
Mary shows Stevie a Beatles album

Mary: The original 1964 Meet the Beatles album.
Original.
Stevie: Oh my god.
Mary: I know, and the back is like incredible, it’s all
about them. And I’ve got the album in there but, but, it
is really something.

SOT Madeline & Geraldine
Clip0034 1:24:50
Madeline and Geraldine talk across a
table

Madeline: My parents were very adamant about me
wanting to go here, because I wanted to go to an art
high school.
Geraldine: Oh you did?
Madeline: Yeah.
Geraldine: Now where was the art high school?
Madeline: It was in downtown / and I got into the
visual arts program which was the hardest to get in.
Geraldine: Oh my god.
Madeline: And I was going to go there until Larchmont
accepted me and my parents were like, oh you should
go here instead.

VO Madeline
Clip0014 17:31:33

Clip0034 50:32
Clip 0034 1:18:45
Clip0035 1:40:20
Clip0034 54:18
Clip0001 11:13:03
Clip0035 1:15:24
Shots of teens, elders, facilitator
during Week Two conversation

Each time that I would talk to Geraldine, we would
discover something new, whether it was like we both
suck at math or maybe we both liked a certain type of
food; or something simple like that.

14

NAT SOUND School from across
street
Clip0050 20:56:09

Clip0006 15.42.24
Nametags on a table

SOT Madeline & Geraldine
Clip0001 11:27:13
Madeline & Geraldine talk at corner
table

Geraldine: Sometimes if you’ve got a friend who’s
willing to help you with a couple problems....

Madeline: Like my class, I don’t really know anyone
there. Everyone else has friends there, so I’m sitting
at a table all by myself.

Geraldine: If you need help, go to the teacher. That’s
what they’re there for. Because there’s a trick to it.
But I’m telling you very honestly Madeline. I never got
the trick. Math came to me very late.

VO Madeline
Clip0016 17:57:49

Clip0001 11:34:04
Clip0035 1:40:35
Clip0035 1:45:30
Clip 0034 1:26:19
Clip0001 11:31:41
Shots of teens and elders talking at
tables in the classroom

It was just really refreshing to actually get to meet a
person who was like an elder and of that generation
and sort of like actually like see them as like an actual
person, with their own emotions, feelings, thoughts
and like someone who had like an entire life and like
history.
VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:41:31

Clip0024 28:39
Wide of Geraldine’s house

Clip0022 24:20
CU Geraldine’s house

I was born and raised in East L.A. and when I say
East L.A., not Boyle Heights, I mean East L.A.
VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:55:46

Clip0013 14:05:01
Geraldine entering living room
My husband is Boston Irish. His name is Morris
Edward Hurley / We were a mixed marriage in 1970.
And if you know anything about the Loving case, the
Supreme Court didn’t allow mixed marriages until
1970. /

15

Clip0013 14:08:38
Photo of Geraldine and husband

Photo of Mildred & Richard Loving
Wikipedia Commons

SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 12:57:51
On Camera

It was very difficult to tell either of us no for what we
wanted.
VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:57:24

1970s Stock Video of driving in
Hollywood and on LA Freeway
Getty Images

When he was 38, he said, If I don’t move to
Hollywood, I will never become a writer. So we sold
our house, moved our children here. And by the time
he was 40, he was writing for television.

SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 12:58:39
On Camera

Miami Vice footage
The Internet Archive

His first show was as a story editor on Miami Vice. So
that’s where he started.

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:47:32

Clip0013 14:08:51
Pan bookcase to Geraldine

Clip0013 14:07:28
Close on Ralph Lauren book

Clip0012 12:47:34
Geraldine at bookcase

Clip0013 14:07:36
Photos of son

My husband said, “What would you like for your 36th
birthday?” And I said, “A baby and I want a little girl.”
And he said “oh my god, we’ve got two children
already.” / And we had a third one, a son.

16

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 13:03:11

Geraldine climbing bookcase
Clip0013 14:07:46

My husband has been gone seven years. He died on
Valentine’s Day, 2015, after winning a golf
Tournament for over 72.
SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 13:03:11
On Camera

And later that night, he had an aneurysm. And he was
dead the next day.
SOT Geraldine
Clip0013 14:06:18
Geraldine pointing to ashes on
mantle

These are my husband’s ashes.

SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 13:04:03
On Camera

My boys were so devastated, I couldn’t concentrate
on me.

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:52:29

Clip0013 14:05:36
Pan grandkid photos

Clip0013 14:08:19
Framed teacher photo

I always wanted to be a teacher. / I adore children; I
love middle schoolers, which is difficult for some
people. And I also like high schoolers. But my forte is
with the eighth grade.
SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 12:52:22
On Camera

The more difficult you are, I want to be in the mix.
VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:52:08

Clip0013 13:59:13
Geraldine doing voting paperwork

You wouldn’t be able to tell this, but I’ve had breast
cancer / And I had to quit teaching in 2010 because I
had pancreatic cancer.
SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 12:15:25
On Camera

And I’m one of the few people that’s looking at 13
years survival.

17

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:55:25

Clip0013 14:00:46
Geraldine flipping voting papers

I never went back to teaching. But while the kids were
growing up, I did a lot of volunteer work, a lot of work
in schools.

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 12:55:24

Pan of Geraldine’s crystal
Clip0013 14:04:30

Geraldine laying out knitting
Clip0013 14:12:50

So I’m always knitting. I’m always doing something.
I’m never idle. / One of the social service projects was
to make squares and put them together; and we
would give the blankets to the women who would
come into Good Sam to have cancer treatment.

SOT Geraldine
Clip0013 14:13:04
Geraldine laying out knitting

Giving things is I think is where happiness comes
from; giving of yourself, your time.

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 13:54:10

Clip0060 41:59
School from across street with sign

Clip0009 12:15:46
Geraldine & Madeline taking a photo

We went to take a picture, the sage and the seeker. /
And we were walking together, and I said, okay,
Madeline, I’ve got to get my good side.

SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 13:54:20
On Camera

And she says, Well, I know what, my good side is,
Mrs. Hurley, so I’m going to stand here.
VO Geraldine
Clip0012 13:54:33

Photo of Geraldine and Madeline

And Reilly says, “Oh, this is a beautiful picture.” And
Madeline says…
SOT Geraldine
Clip0012 13:54:38
On Camera

“Our good side.”
SOT Madeline & Geraldine Geraldine: How was your Halloween?

18

Clip0009_11.2 12:25:53
Madeline & Geraldine talking across
the table

Madeline: So there’s this neighborhood I always go to
trick or treat at. It’s considered a rich neighborhood so
they always give out a bunch of candy.

Geraldine: What’s considered a rich neighborhood?

Madeline: For me it’s maybe like having a big house.
Especially here in LA cause houses aren’t that cheap.
So if you can have like a really big house, I feel like
that proves you have a bit of money. You have some
money to spend. / My mom last year made me wear
this dinosaur costume and I hated it. I just wanted to
throw myself onto traffic. I hated it. She said you can
wear it again this year. And I said no I actually have
like homework. But I stayed home and cleaned up
the house and I just watched movies by myself.

Geraldine: Now this is a sign, Madeline, that you’re
growing up. When you can reject what you don’t like.
And choose. And your parents very graciously
allowed you to do that. That’s good.

SOT Diego Owen-Lora (student) and
Jeffery Brown (program participant)
Clip0001 11:19:49
Diego and Jeffery across the table in
classroom
Jeffery: I could talk to them about whatever it is I
wanted to talk about; of course there were certain
things I wouldn’t talk about.

Diego: I really like my moms It’s like every parent
child relationship where it’s like it’s a bit rocky
sometimes. But I try to think of it like they are people.

Jeffery: They are people?

Diego: They’re just people. They’re just… It’s not like
they’re my parents. Well, they are my parents.

SOT Geraldine and Madeline
Clip0009 12:35:51
Geraldine and Madeline talking at
table in classroom

Geraldine: I know in high school, I was behind the
scenes like you are. But it is one of the most
memorable things I have ever done was participate in
theater. We had Damn Yankees which was a musical.
/ And I just loved it. Even though I was behind the
scenes and had a small part, it didn’t matter. Because

19

it’s those people behind the scenes who make the
whole thing work isn’t it?

Madeline: Yeah. It’s like working with what we have.
The scraps that were left over from last year.

Geraldine: Well you know, that’s where you get
creative. When you don’t have much.

NAT SOUND Play Music
Clip0031 15:09
Establishing of theater tent

VO Geraldine
Clip0013 14:15:39

Clip0013 15:12:02
Madeline backstage

Clip0015 14:17:11
Geraldine buys ticket

Clip0031 15:10:08
Props table

Clip0014 14:16:38
Geraldine walking into play

Clip0018 14:30:31
Madeline lifting table

Clip0032 15:18:08
Geraldine laughing

Madeline is behind the stage crew and that’s what I
did in high school for plays; so it’s just amazing how
much we do that’s similar and how we see things.

NAT SOUND Play
Clip0032 15:16:42
Pan of stage and dead body

VO Geraldine in home
Clip0012 13:13:26

Clip0019 14:33:26
I recognize a lot of Madeline in myself. She’s a river
that runs deep.

20

Madeline reading outside

Clip0032 15:23:25
Madeline takes bow

Clip0028 15:03:06
Playbill and flowers

SOT Geraldine and Madeline
Clip0034 15:31:54
Geraldine and Madeline talking in
empty theater tent
Geraldine: Did your parents get to see it?
Madeline: No they haven’t.
Geraldine: Will they come tonight?
Madeline: No they’re not going to come because I’m
not in it.
Geraldine: Oh I see, because you’re backstage.

VO Madeline
Clip0026 14:57:49

Clip0034 15:31:54
Geraldine and Madeline talk after
play

We have this sort of mutual connection because she
was part of it, and now I’m part of it.

SOT Madeline
Clip0026 14:57:55
Madeline on camera, outside theater
tent

And so it means a lot to me…
VO Madeline

Clip0034 15:31:56
Geraldine and Madeline talk after
play

…that she’s taking the time out of her day to come
here and watch it. / It’s letting me know she cares.

SOT Madeline and Geraldine
Clip0034 15:32:51
Geraldine and Madeline talk in empty
tent after play

Geraldine: Enjoy tonight.

21

NAT SOUND Traffic passing
Clip0060 41:58
Establishing high school and church

NAT SOUND Teens and elders
talking
Clip0001 11:42:48
Clip0008 15:47:17
Clip0009 15:54:40
Clip0009 16:03:24
Teens and Elders talking at tables

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 13:15:27

Clip0009 16:11:22
Madeline and Geraldine through the
door

Clip001116:14:29
Madeline and Geraldine talking in
hall

Clip0011 16:15:36
CU Madeline’s self portrait

What I don’t have...which she has given me a peek
of: She’s an incredible artist. / My husband was
indeed a true artist, but it didn’t start at nine and ten
like it did for her. / And the best part of it for me. Is to
see what she calls the doodle.

SOT Geraldine and Madeline
Clip0011 16:14:40
Geraldine and Madeline talking in
hall

Clip0011 16:15:54
CU Madeline’s self portrait

Clip0011 16:16:34
Geraldine and Madeline wide shot

Geraldine: Now I know that’s you. Don’t you think?

Madeline: Yeah, I tend to use myself as a reference a
lot. I don’t know, I think it’s kind of, I’m always here
with myself.

Geraldine: Wow the fact you can visualize it,
Madeline, is so amazing. That’s such an incredible
skill to have. To visually see /

It’s wonderful, show me another one.

VO Geraldine
Clip0012 13:19:44

Clip0011 16:21:29
Geraldine and Madeline in hall
Her art is very important to her, and she doesn’t think
that she has the ability to be an artist and earn a
living. So we discussed the possibility of what she
could do as an artist / But she’s just seeking right
now.

22

Clip0011 16:18:27
Geraldine and Madeline from behind

Clip0035 1:49:40
Seek + Communicate banner

SOT Ronna Goldstein
Program Participant
Clip0009 15:58:08
Ronna intros tributes while sages
and seekers listen at tables.

So, next week the seekers are going to read their
tributes to the sages / It’s the funny moments, it’s the
laughing and meaningful things. It’s not like you’re
Hemingway writing a novel; this is really life, and the
connection you had with someone.
NAT SOUND Traffic passing school
Clip0058 39:16
Wide to CU of school

VO Elly Katz
Clip0007 3:59:53

Clip0007 5:33:45
Audience listening

Okay, take it away.

SOT Izzie Rivas
Student
Clip0011 5:03:28
Izzie reading tribute

I’m usually reserved talking to people I’ve never met
before, but it felt like we already had a connection
based off just that.

SOT Julia Bermudez
Student
Clip0010 4:29:13
Julia reading tribute

I find myself being shy when I’m with elders and I
thought that that’s what this program was going to be:
weeks of uncomfortable conversations because I’m
too shy to get out there. I thought that I could never
have an ongoing conversation without awkwardly
checking my phone and pretending I’m texting
someone.

SOT Stevie
Clip0010 4:50:39
Stevie reading tribute

Clip0010 04:51:05
When she first showed me her Beatles and Rolling
Stones records, I almost fell out of my chair. I
definitely consider myself an old soul and I love
having someone I can connect with about music
through the generations.

23

Mary listening to tribute

SOT Diego
Clip0010 4:16:01
Diego reading tribute

I don’t know the title of your favorite movie, but I
asked you on the first day we met. And it’s about a
gay man who had a good life and had a good gay life
in the big city.

SOT Cira Mejia
Student
Clip0010 04:45:55
Cira reading tribute

I love getting to update you on my week and
complaining about my teenage problems. Thank you
for always listening to me / When I tell you that I and
Robert have so many shared interests, I meant it.
From our interest in anything made by Miyazaki to our
deep love for reading Greek mythology, Robert and I
have instantly clicked.
SOT Izzie
Clip0011 05:03:48
Izzie reading tribute

Clip0011 05:05:47
Ronna laughing

I liked hearing all the stories you had to tell / or that
we can both agree High school boys in P.E. class are
the most annoying people that could ever exist on the
planet.

SOT Emily Morales
Student
Clip0009 04:07:33
Emily reading tribute

Also I won’t forget your iconic line: buy low sell high.
SOT Alisa Khomutetsky
Student
Clip0009 04:12:53
Alyssa reading tribute

It showed me I should never settle for anything less
than I deserve. I hope that one day I get to
experience a true love that Ron has in his life.

SOT Jay
Clip0007 04:02:05
Jay reading tribute

I plan to listen to Anne, to love what I do. That’s
something I need to work on; work for.

SOT Mia Maslak
Student
Clip0010 04:26:38
Mia reading tribute

Thank you for being a friend I could look forward to
seeing every Wednesday.

SOT Massimo Vacco
Clip0010 04:37:26
Massimo reading tribute

It didn’t feel like this was something I had to do. It felt
like I was talking to a friend.

24

SOT Freddie Braxton
Program Participant
Clip0010 04:38:07
Freddie reacting to tribute

I can explain what it’s like being with him really easily.
Number one, it’s like being on Prozac.

SOT Ronna
Clip0011 5:07:56
Ronna reacting to tribute

If you notice, she has one of those smiles that we’re
going to put on a t-shirt and manufacture and sell.

SOT Mark
Clip0010 4:44:02
Mark reacting to tribute

What’s interesting to me and I always tell my wife:
you meet someone that you really have more in
common with than you don’t.

SOT Tia Bentley
Program Participant
Clip0010 3:44:55
Tia reacting to tribute

I found that she came most alive when sharing
experience in going to the Ukraine and her family in
the Ukraine.

SOT Jeffery
Clip0010 04:18:57
Jeffery reacting to tribute

I’m not a guy who’s big on hope, but being around
these people, I kind a glimmer that things are not as
bad as they seem.

SOT Robert Barnes
Program Participant
Clip0010 04:49:32
Robert reacting to tribute

So, I hope we stay in touch, because I want to be
able to watch and admire from the sidelines as you
become somebody really, really even more
wonderful.

NAT SOUND Madeline walking up to
read tribute
Clip0010 4:5605

Elly Katz: Okay, how about Madeline and Geraldine.

SOT Madeline
Clip0010 4:56:16-5:01:40
Madeline reading tribute and
Geraldine listening

Geraldine listening
Clip0010 4:58:42

Geraldine laughing
Clip0010 4:57:24

Geraldine listening
Clip0010 4:57:30
Dearest Geraldine, I want to start off by saying how
grateful I am that our paths have crossed in life.
Meeting you and getting to know you, even though it
was brief, was something that I will cherish for the
rest of my life. Each Wednesday, the highlight of my
day was getting to talk to you while I devoured the
chocolate chip cookies from the snack table. Each
week we would seem to get lost in conversation and
miraculously seem to find another way that we were
alike. Whether it was the love for our parents, how we
both have long names, or how we both struggled in
math. But each time we talked, I left in awe. You
always had so much to say to share with the world

25

Geraldine’s hands
Clip0010 5:00:13

and I’ve always admired that about you since the day
we met /

13 years ago you were diagnosed with pancreatic
cancer and you were forced to stop teaching and had
a surgery you were unsure you would come out of.
Yet you came out well and alive. Nine months later,
after recovering, your husband died. But you still
remained you: kind, gentle, compassionate, loving.
And you kept your desire to connect with others /

I wanted to thank you for being a part of my life and I
always hope that we can stay in touch for many years
to come. I admire your desire to connect to people,
and I admire how you always see the best in people. I
admire how you see the best in me.

I want to thank you for all the times you encouraged
me and all the times you told me that if I tried, I could
do something. And thank you for sharing your time
and your precious words with me /

As I get older, I hope to age like you. I hope that I will
be able to look at the world in a kind and positive light
as you do. Thank you for caring for me and treating
me with such kindness. I hope that you and I have
many more years together. And again, thank you.
With love, Madeline.

SOT Geraldine
Clip0010 5:01:57
Geraldine reacting to tribute

She’s just a delight. I have tears in my eyes because
I’m going to miss her. We are so much alike in so
many ways. And I love her low key assuredness. This
child is only 15 years old and the wisdom she carries,
her talents, had me totally awestricken. And I tried to
share that feeling with her. Thank you.

VO Madeline
Clip0016 18:00:54

Clip0010 5:02:48
Madeline and Geraldine hugging,
sitting after tribute

It just feels like nice to have someone, like, admire
you and see you / I spent most of my time at school,
and people at school don’t really see me. So just
having someone that saw me and wanted to see me
and that...admired seeing me just meant a lot to me.

26

SOT Madeline at park
Clip0016 18:01:12

And like I really, really appreciated that Geraldine was
able to see me.
NAT SOUND Goodbyes

Clip0007 03:48
Clip0007 03:50:03
Clip0009 4:14:18
Clip0010 4:55:28
Clip0011 5:11:15
Clip0011 05:10:55
Teens and elders hugging, saying
goodbye after tributes

Text Card:

Since its launch in 2010, Sages &
Seekers has served more than 6,000
teens and seniors.

Source: Elly Katz

NAT SOUND Madeline exits school
Clip0027 29:01:14
Madeline walking out of school, then
up the sidewalk

NAT SOUND Geraldine exits school
Clip0037 1:18:08
Geraldine walking out of school, then
getting in her car

Text Cards:

In 2023, Madeline enrolled at Otis
College of Art and Design and was
awarded a full scholarship.

She and Geraldine remain close
friends.

27

Script Bibliography

Katz, Elly, interview by Andrew Dubbins. 2023. Impact (April 25)

Freedman, Marc and Trent Stamp, “Overcoming Age Segregation.” Stanford Social Innovation
Review, March 15, 2021. https://ssir.org/articles/entry/overcoming_age_segregation

Abstract (if available)

Abstract Sages & Seekers is a documentary short that follows a high school teenager, Madeline Garcia-Nuñez, and her elder mentor, Geraldine Hurley, over the course of a six week after-school program that pairs high school teenagers with elder adults to combat ageism.

Set at Larchmont Charter School in L.A.’s Rampart Village, the documentary was filmed verité style, capturing the frank conversations between teens and elders in real time. It follows Madeline and Geraldine, and other pairs, from their initial meeting to the finale of the program, presenting their discussions about life, culture, family, technology, and other topics.

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University of Southern California Dissertations and Theses

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Asset Metadata

Creator Dubbins, Andrew (author)

Core Title Sages & seekers

Contributor Electronically uploaded by the author (provenance)

School Annenberg School for Communication

Degree Master of Arts

Degree Program Specialized Journalism

Degree Conferral Date 2023-05

Publication Date 05/09/2023

Defense Date 05/09/2023

Publisher University of Southern California (original), University of Southern California. Libraries (digital)

Tag Ageism,cross-generational program,generation gap,High School,Mental Health,OAI-PMH Harvest,Social work

Format theses (aat)

Language English

Advisor Birman, Daniel (committee chair), Mittelstaedt, Alan (committee member), Tolan, Sandy (committee member)

Creator Email adubbins@gmail.com,adubbins@usc.edu

Permanent Link (DOI) https://doi.org/10.25549/usctheses-oUC113120601

Unique identifier UC113120601

Identifier etd-DubbinsAnd-11811.pdf (filename)

Legacy Identifier etd-DubbinsAnd-11811

Document Type Thesis

Format theses (aat)

Rights Dubbins, Andrew

Internet Media Type application/pdf

Type texts

Source 20230511-usctheses-batch-1041 (batch), University of Southern California (contributing entity), University of Southern California Dissertations and Theses (collection)

Access Conditions The author retains rights to his/her dissertation, thesis or other graduate work according to U.S. copyright law. Electronic access is being provided by the USC Libraries in agreement with the author, as the original true and official version of the work, but does not grant the reader permission to use the work if the desired use is covered by copyright. It is the author, as rights holder, who must provide use permission if such use is covered by copyright.

Repository Name University of Southern California Digital Library

Repository Location USC Digital Library, University of Southern California, University Park Campus MC 2810, 3434 South Grand Avenue, 2nd Floor, Los Angeles, California 90089-2810, USA

Repository Email cisadmin@lib.usc.edu